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The words of Gregg Shields, national spokesman for the Boy Scouts of America. (Only homophobes use phrases like avowed homosexual.)

"Since our founding, we've taught traditional American family values, and we simply feel that an avowed homosexual is not a role model for those values," Shields says -- same goes for atheists, who've also been excluded from the organization. "We just don't feel that they'd be the kinds of role models we'd choose to present to our youth."

Scout-aged children and parents of Scouts agree

Richard Evans Lee
June 12, 2003 •
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See this is what I don't get. Let say I'm a millionaire who gives boatloads of money to charitable organizations and personally goes on a trip every year to help build houses for people in Burma and has umpteen Citizen of the Year awards, and I just happen to be gay and atheist. The Boy Scouts are saying they'd rather have an uber-religious fundamentalist straight guy with no job who beats his wife and diddles his daughter as a Scout Master? Yeah, those are great values to have! Good job, Boy Scouts of America!

Posted by: Nicole | June 12, 2003 4:46 PM

Losing One’s Religion: A Perspective from Two Gay Atheists by Victor Gorin,Contributing Writer The Gayly Oklahoman January 15, 2003 OKLAHOMA CITY - Our community is made up of many different religious beliefs, and some of us have no religion at all. Just like humanity at large, gay atheists who have reached their conclusions by differing paths are often misunderstood and sometimes ostracized because they don’t believe in a supreme being. Two major Oklahoma City activists who share this position, James Nimmo and Matt McNeil, shared their views with The Gayly. Victor: Matt, what led you to atheism? Matt: It was not a single incident or epiphany, such as a Damascus road experience. It was a gradual process. My parents had a mixed marriage, my father was Protestant and my mother was Catholic, so as a compromise I was raised in a liberal religious home with not much emphasis on religion. When I was 10 my father remarried to a religious fundamentalist, the daughter of an Assemblies of God minister. That was when I first encountered fundamentalism. We attended her church every Sunday and I hated everything about it. I went to a Catholic university, Sacred Heart College of Wichita, and spent 2 years in a pre-seminary program intending to become a priest. I liked the pomp and central authority of the Catholic Church as opposed to the chaos I saw in Protestantism. It’s hard to believe now, but at that time I was against birth control or a woman’s right to choose and against homosexuality while denying it in myself. I bought their doctrines lock, stock and barrel. At the end of two years, however, I began to explore ideas and question the beliefs of the church. I found holes, contradictions and things that didn’t add up. I did a great deal of world traveling following that experience, including 4 years teaching in South Korea in an exchange program. I am a sixth generation Oklahoman, and I returned home in 1993 as an atheist. I had come to the conclusion that not only did the Emperor have no clothes, but that there was no Emperor at all. I had come out as gay by this time and it helped me because I could see that the major factor holding gays and lesbians back around the world was religion. Atheism teaches one how to deal with this subject rationally and scientifically. Victor: And you, Jim? Jim: I had been a closet atheist for much of my life. The parallel between being a closeted atheist and closeted gay are very close in that you think you are the only one. Then you meet one or two, and the circle widens, and it strengthens your own beliefs. I grew up in the Baptist tradition, but my family was only nominally religious. When I grew up, the more I read about religion and science, and the more it seemed that science was the stronger evidence that religion was the construct of each person’s personality. I don’t believe that there is some major supernatural force that made the world or kick-started everything while standing on the sidelines, dabbling once in a while when something attracts his/her attention. Victor: Maybe the reason gays and atheists are closeted is a fear of the reactions of others. Jim: I think very much so. Being gay or an atheist is being part of a minority and there is a widespread social dislike towards both groups. Victor: Is the gay community more accepting of atheists than general American society? Jim: I have found that gays are more open minded, probably because they know what it’s like to be part of a minority Victor: What do you feel would be the best way for those of other faiths and atheists to relate to each other? Matt: The Oklahoma Atheists and Tulsa Humanists are not interested in denigrating Christians or any other religion. We promote religious liberty for all. We are not trying to eradicate religion, but are strongly promoting keeping the separation of church and state firmly in place. Interestingly enough, Jim Huff, the President of Oklahomans United for the Separation of Church and State, is a Baptist minister. The Vice President is a Methodist minister, and one of our greatest spokesmen, Bruce Prescott, is a Baptist with a doctorate in theology. They understand the importance of this separation in our history. I find it reprehensible that Mormons and Baptists, who were once religious minorities who benefited from this protection when they faced persecution, now want to use government power to enforce their beliefs. Our first 6 presidents were not orthodox Christians; they were Deists. It is a myth that our founding fathers wanted a theocracy. I sum up my belief with a bumper sticker, “If you want a theocracy, move to Iran.” Victor: So you are not seeking to actively recruit people to atheism? Matt: That’s true, but if people want to discuss my beliefs I would be glad to talk to them. I would love to see converts to reason and science, but I don’t go knocking door to door. It is still largely considered taboo in American society, to the extent that it was much harder to come out as an atheist than as a gay man. It is associated with Communism, but Andrew Carnegie was an atheist, and so is Bill Gates, two of America’s greatest capitalists and philanthropists. Throughout American history, despite our supposed Church/State separation, atheists have been denied the right to testify in court, have had their children taken from them, and have even been killed for their belief. Even more recently in 1988, George Bush Sr. was quoted to say’,” Atheists should neither be considered citizens or patriots.” During the last 150 years, Catholics, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists have filed more lawsuits concerning the separation of church and state than atheists. There are many people who fear religion in their government and government in their religion, for good reason. Victor: Thank you both for your insights, and also for your tireless work for religious freedom for everyone. For those interested in learning more about atheism in Oklahoma, check out www.oklahomaatheists.org. This group meets twice a month. The Tulsa Humanist organization’s website is www.hatulsa.freeyellow.com.

Posted by: Matt | January 15, 2004 3:34 PM

im a senior patrol leader in a boy scout troop...and i want to say that if you think its ok for a openly gay man, or nay gay man at that should be allowed in boyscouts, youre an IDIOT. Would you want you 12 year old son to camping out in the middle of no where with some middle aged queer? i wouldnt...scouts is gay enough already

Posted by: SPL | December 30, 2006 3:59 PM

How do you feel?

Feel free to share your feelings about No atheists or open gays. Please stick to the theme of the entry. Disagreement is fine. Homophobia, racism, and kindred expressions of hatred will be deleted. This site is one of my hobbies. I genuinely enjoy hearing from people and hate moderating or killing comments. Forthright disagreement is fine as long as it is civil.
My thanks,
Richard

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