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Being gay incompatible with human nature

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''It is something very depressing for me, as it is something incompatible with human nature,'' Cardinal Jozef Glemp said yesterday.

''I just can't stand men kissing. Maybe I'm old-fashioned.''

Gay.com UK: Gay rights proposals attacked in Poland

Richard Evans Lee
October 22, 2003 •
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I won't try to save your soul. I am not homophobic or racist. I despise spam. I do not hate gay's. I don't even dislike them. My biggest concern about this topic is that it seems to me people try to avoid the real issues and arguments over fears of being politically correct or labelled a hatemonger or some other ugly term just for disagreeing, even a little. In my view love and sex are not directly related. I love my parents, my brothers, and my son and have absolutely no desire to have sex with them. Love also comes in many forms. The type of love I experience for my son is vastly different from the type of love I feel for my friends. On the physical side sex is a biological function. All living things, with the exception of single celled organisms, have sex. Earthworms have sex. Your physical body knows or cares nothing about politics or any of the arguements related to homosexuality or any other related subject. On the subconscience mental side your brain provides a stimulus that says "go have sex". It is by this simple straight forward mechanism that humans reproduce. The causes for homosexual behavior must be psycological and operate on a level above these rudimentary functions. Not that it changes the outcome any but it is not rational to say "I was born that way" or it is genetic. I have never heard anybody argue that homosexuals are physically different from heterosexuals in any functional way. Nobody to my knowlege has ever made the arguement that homosexual males have underdeveloped testicles or homosexual female ovaries produce testosterone instead of estrogen. This would also not explain other sexual behaiviors like bisexuality. This does not imply that the way homosexuals feel about themselves is not real or not impelling. What concerns me is that denying the true nature of the phenomenon prevents people from having a true understanding of it. I think attempting to compare homosexual relationships to hetereosexual ones is a mistake. Its comparing apples to oranges. It is also a mistake to try and equate the outcome of these relationships. The result of heterosexual relationships is families. Parents, siblings, and children. Whithout them nobody, including homosexuals, could exist. Homosexual relationships, like it or not, are baren. This statement is true and is not dirived from hatred. This is not to say that homosexuals should be hated, shuned, denied employement, or anything like that. It is merely having the courage not to be PC and recognize the truth. On a religious level (I know you're an athiest but hear me out, its not a sermon) the bible says (Liviticus, Romans, Corinthians, other places) homosexuality is a sin. It also says stealing is a sin. It also says EVERYBODY is guilty of sin. The penalty for ALL sin is the same, death. That doesn't make sin ok but it says ok your gay and I'm a thief. We're even. Now what are we going to do about it. The point I'm getting at is the religious viewpoint is not based on hatred. The bible says don't eat pork. They didn't say that because they hated pigs. They said it because people would eat pork get triginosis and die. Its actually a caring viewpoint. This behavior can hurt you so don't do it. Just because some people mis-interpret this messege doesn't mean the messege is bad. Thanks for listening!

Posted by: Believer | December 7, 2003 1:41 AM

Dear Believer, Your retroductive argument (The causes for homosexual behavior must be psycological and operate on a level above these rudimentary functions.)is unwarranted and not true. It defies the logical rule that "P" can not equal "not P"--homosexual response cannot be both autonomic and voluntary (not autonomic). Heterosexual marriage results in: divorce, domestic violence, birth defects and genetic anomalies, as much as it results in "children". Homosexual marriage can also result in all these things too, and it can result in children, siblings, etc. (not barren.) Finally, read Paul's letter to the Romans. Right after he says homos will be judged by God, he says (2:1-3) that people who persecute homos will be judged by God as harshly as he judges homos. Let God do God's work, and you do yours (visiting the sick, feeding the poor, etc.)

Posted by: Believe this | January 26, 2004 5:14 PM

Hello Believe this, I appreciate your viewpoint. I don't think we totally disagree but I'm not convinced on certain points. I'll start with the last first because it's the easiest to address and if I understand you correctly I think we actually agree. I will then address your arguements in reverse order. I am not condoning judging anybody. I stated "This does not imply that the way homosexuals feel about themselves is not real or not impelling." and "This is not to say that homosexuals should be hated, shuned, denied employement, or anything like that." My last point was that the biblical viewpoint is not based on hatred of homosexuals. It is based on the belief that the practice of homosexual behavior can be harmful to the practitioner. I'm not trying to argue the validity of this view but that it is based on a caring position as opposed to a hateful one. You stated "and it can result in children, siblings, etc. (not barren.)". You lost me on this one. A homosexual can engage in heterosexual behavior and produce children but I have never before heard the claim that any two individuals of the same sex can copulate and produce offspring. "Heterosexual marriage results in:..." I would not argue with you that in life, even under ideal circumstances, bad things happen. People disregard thier responsibilities, get diseases, suffer birth defects, get addicted to drugs, and do horrible things to one another. I just don't see where that changes the arguement. "P does not equal not P." Although this rendering of my statement into a simple algabraic equation is somewhat clever it in no way addresses the complexities of human relationships, phsycology, and biology and does not really address my point that heterosexual and homosexual relationships are fundamentally different from each other and should not be equated. My point was that I have never heard anybody claim with any validity that there is any physical or functional difference between homosexual and heterosexual biology. I do not claim to be a doctor or a psyciatrist but I don't see any reason that the basic drive to engage in sex (a drive shared with the most mindless and rudimentary of lifeforms) should be linked directly to the higher levels of brain function involved in interpersonal relationships. I welcome your response. Thanks!

Posted by: Believer | January 26, 2004 10:57 PM

Wow theres some serious babbling going on in here. Before i start can i say i'm not homophobic. I'd like to make a point on children in homosexual relationships, as it was mentioned by one of you. Well all i've got to say realy is in this day and age it's not right. Now hold on let me finish. It's all good and well them saying "oh wouldn't it be nice for US to have a child" but come on, that child will grow up with so much shit from school and even after. Think about the third party, NOT yourself. Sorry if i didn't put any big words in or tried to be realy clever.

Posted by: blah blah blah | January 27, 2004 1:22 PM

There are kids being raised by two gay parents who are doing just fine.

Posted by: Richard | January 28, 2004 6:02 AM

do you know them personally do you. I suggest you try and find out there inner feelings and what they are hiding about the shit they're realy getting from school.

Posted by: blah blah blah | January 29, 2004 11:36 AM

shut the f**k up a**holes!!!

Posted by: john | March 9, 2004 7:14 AM

blah blah blah: I do. I know a 13-year-old girl and two twin 5-year-old girls who are being raised by a lesbian couple. The 13-year-old is quite normal, healthy and a sweet girl, and has many healthy, normal friendships. She makes good grades and is perfectly happy in school. I'm rather amused by the fact that you assume that every child raised by gay parents has "shit" that they are "hiding" about their "inner feelings." Tell me, do you know any children raised by gay parents? Have you sat down with them and forced these startling revelations about out of them? I'm rather curious to know how you came to the conclusion that all children of gay parents are in constant inner turmoil. Believer: If homosexuality is psychological and not a natural physical way of being, then explain why it occurs in nature. Why do some cats only ever attempt to mount members of their own sex? Why do bulls when locked in a pen together for long enough anally penetrate one another? Why do dolphins rub up against one another for sexual stiumulation, regardless of gender? Why does an entire species of frogs have males take on submissive poses during intercourse? I suppose we should put these natural animals through therapy to find out what trauma occured to warp their minds into this unnatural state of being.

Posted by: Julie | March 14, 2004 4:30 AM

How do you feel?

Feel free to share your feelings about Being gay incompatible with human nature. Please stick to the theme of the entry. Disagreement is fine. Homophobia, racism, and kindred expressions of hatred will be deleted. This site is one of my hobbies. I genuinely enjoy hearing from people and hate moderating or killing comments. Forthright disagreement is fine as long as it is civil.
My thanks,
Richard

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