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God & The Lord of the Rings

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Openly gay atheist Sir Ian McKellen on The Lord of the Rings

"The interesting thing about Hobbiton to me is that it doesn't have a church," said McKellen, during a blitz of interviews hours before the premiere of "The Return of the King" in Los Angeles. "It's appealing to me that people like these stories, and yet there isn't an archbishop and there isn't a pope telling you what to believe ... .

'Rings' trilogy stirs religious argument

Richard Evans Lee
December 13, 2003 •
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I agree, I am so sick of the way the religous set, tries to make everyone think like they do. Very few religious people are spiritual, they instead are more political and use religion as a means of manipulating minds and creating this great dogma over a being of love and life, and will kill you if you dont share that beleif.

Posted by: Ursol | December 31, 2003 3:38 PM

Lord of the Rings was written by a deeply religious man, who, did not directly intend for this to be a religious allegory. However, given his spirituality, there is no doubt that this was indirectly a spiritual book reflecting Christian values. Not accepting this point is a close-minded and ridiculous approach.

Posted by: Blake | January 4, 2004 5:21 PM

I know about Tolkien, Williams and the Inklings. I was quoting an actor in a movie, not a literary critic discussing the book. And I like Ian McKellen.

Posted by: Richard | January 4, 2004 5:37 PM

I think that you are missing the bigger picture if you fail to see Tolkien's symbolizim in the Lord of the Rings. Tolkien was a very religious man, a Roman Catholic, with a brillant imagination. Many of the characters Tolkein wrote about such as: Frodo, Samwise, Gandalf, Aragorn and Arwen symbolize Christ in various scenes in the movies and parts of the books. One example of this being Gandalf, who in the first movie and the first book pursues "Balrog" (huge devil creature with horns and a whip..) and in his encounter with him passes away. In this scene he scarifices himself for in compainions, and before he falls yells to them, "fly you fools!" Another instance is when Arwen takes Frodo, who had been stabbed by a dark rider, back to heal him, he is fading fast. After the Black riders are no longer following them she says to Frodo, "What grace has given me let it pass to him, let him be spared." These are only 2 examples of the many which protray characteristics of Christ, which sends a message that Tolkein had fully intended to get across. Chirst took our sin, and was put to death on a cross that if we except it, and follow Him,we might live for eternity with Him. He sacrificed himself for us, not because we deserved it but because of his great love and compassion for us, even as sinful as we all are. It is by His grace we are saved, the gift that we didn't deserve he passed on to us. Many say they are tired of feeling like they are getting religious beliefs shoved down their thoat, when I really think it's the other way around. God is being completely taken out of the schools and the media and being replaced with ideas like liberalism, gay rights, reparations, etc. Our world is now corrupted. Too many have turned their back on what can save their life, completely neglecting your callings, and His divine purpose for your life, if you fall under this catagory I say, "You're missing out!" John 12:25 says this, "If you hold onto life just as it is, you destroy it, but if you let it go..you'll have it forever, real and eternal."

Posted by: Anoymous | January 6, 2004 8:39 PM

I loved all three lord of the rings but think the last was, especially the battles, more of the same.. not that they weren't great, but things seemed to get repetitive, especially if compared to the second movie..

Posted by: Raquel | January 28, 2004 9:16 AM

It is ridiculous to connect the tale, history, or any of the characters with religion. Numerous people who blindly believe in everything they are told always try to connect such things to their beliefs. It is stupid, shortsighted and narrow-minded to express such thought. J.R.R. Tolkien said himself in foreword of the book: "As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical. ... I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence." The least people can do is respect authors wishes.

Posted by: Anonymous111 | February 1, 2004 12:38 AM

More often than not, the author's subconscious over rules his/her intentions. Tolkien may not have intended to connect his books to religion, but his subconsciously his writings included religous symbolism. I truly think that these books, as well as the movies, have much religious symbolism. I do not think it narrow-minded to connect things to one's beliefs if it is obviously so.

Posted by: weeze_one | March 21, 2004 12:50 PM

anonymous- you said that Gandalf, among other characters, was a Christ figure in particular scenes. I don't doubt the fact that other characters represented Christ in various ways, but I know for a fact that Gandalf did not. Gandalf, and the other wizards, are angles, of sorts. Tolkien wrote about this in letters and such, though not too many people know this little fact. And to those of you who don't see the religious influence in the books, you're out of your mind. I'm an agnostic and even I can see it. Love the books anyways, too.

Posted by: me | March 23, 2004 5:08 PM

Tolkien did base the Lord of the Rings mostly on Norse mythology, however, such as the Poetic Edda, and that particular text is highly symbolic and religious (Pagan) in nature. Some of the similarities to Christ may be the result of the similarities between Christ and Othin of the Edda. In Hovamol 139, for instance, Othin speaks of his crucifixion as the Father in the Flesh: 139. I ween that I hung | on the windy tree, Hung there for nights full nine; With the spear I was wounded, | and offered I was To Othin, myself to myself, On the tree that none | may ever know What root beneath it runs. And this text, the Poetic Edda of Iceland, was the source for much of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. If you don't believe me about him using the Edda as a source, just look at this bit from Volupso: 9. Then sought the gods | their assembly-seats, The holy ones, | and council held, To find who should raise | the race of dwarfs Out of Brimir's blood | and the legs of Blain. 10. There was Motsognir | the mightiest made Of all the dwarfs, | and Durin next; Many a likeness | of men they made, The dwarfs in the earth, | as Durin said. 11. Nyi and Nithi, | Northri and Suthri, Austri and Vestri, | Althjof, Dvalin, Nar and Nain, | Niping, Dain, Bifur, Bofur, | Bombur, Nori, An and Onar, | Ai, Mjothvitnir. Notice Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Nori, Dvalin (Dwalin), etc. You'd be surprised just how much Lord of the Rings reflects the Norse mythology Tolkien drew upon. So even if he did not intend for it to be symbolic, the mythology he based it upon was intended to be symbolic--and therefore the Monomyth effect took over, as Joseph Campbell would say, and we ended up with Christian-esque symbolism in Lord of the Rings. Of course, this is also Pagan-esque, Babylonian-esque and Hindu-esque symbolism. In fact, the Edda is more similar to some Indian texts than anything else outside of Europe. So, sure, there is some 'Christian' symbolism in Lord of the Rings, but the same symbolism shows up in the Norse stories of Othin, the Pagan stories of Dionysus, the Babylonian stories of Tammuz and Nimrod, etc.

Posted by: Khranus | April 18, 2004 4:21 PM

well i do understand why they would think that, but the basic meaning is that good will overcome evil. that what the bible says that good wil overcome evil. so who caresb that they say may the valar be with you. so what if the valar is where the gods live, as long as the spiritual and general message get through then I really don't care. i loved the films and i am a devouted fan. this religious argument is stupid, it is like my religion book saying that to worship other gods is bad and sinful, but what about the people who did these things and did not know about the One True God. this is all that i'm saying. oh yeah who cares that Ian McKellan is gay, certainly not me.

Posted by: arwen | May 29, 2004 7:50 PM

Hi...this discussion is sill and Tolkien himself linked his own writing to Christianity...maybe you should investigate that. "'The Lord of the Rings' is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out practically all references to anything like 'religion,' to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and symbolism." (from a letter written in 1953 from J.R.R. Tolkien to Robert Murray, a Jesuit priest, published in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 1981) Try reading on "Tree and Leaf: On Fairy Stories" (found today, in the Tolkien Reader) So, if Tolkien said it was religious and Catholic (Christian" then he's right...

Posted by: Fake Plastic Girl | June 15, 2004 1:02 PM

i love the lotr series and the movies. i know for a fact that tolkien did not intend for his books to be allegory. his friend c.s. lewis, however, did intend his to be. even though there are many similarities between the lotr series and the life of christ, christianity, and etc, i don't think they were done intentionally. christ embodies everything good about society, right? so can't all good characters in books be compared to him? and can't all evil characaters be comparted similarly to satan?

Posted by: caitlin | July 11, 2004 10:50 PM

I can speak with some understanding of Tolkien I beleive, having first read his works in 1968 and studied all his works and even letters. It was Tolkien that led me to study Celtic and Nordic religion and folklore, and then history. Standing on the ground that Tolkien was a Christian and therefore had to be writing in Christian symbolism is simply an uneducated grab at his much wider and deeper plum into Western mythology and representation than Christianity. Just as there were "Suns" of God born of virgins long before Christianity absorbed those sets of religious myths, Tolkien is dealing with ancient themes beyond and incidentally occassionally reflecting Christianity. Christian leaders have since Paul always robbed and forged what they could not completely changed into their ownership. I am amazed at this now going on over LOTR. In the 1970s, Christians condemed LOTR as pagan, satanist, etc. Now, that it is so big, they are attempting to own it. Typical.

Posted by: Spark of Mark | July 12, 2004 1:27 AM

And to writer of comment 4 - You have not read the books, just seen the movie. Galadriel never says anything close to "Let what grace there is in me go to him..." This was an edit by the film makers. And even if she did, she could be speaking of any kind of "grace." "Grace" is not a Christian owned term. But this is also typical - people who have not read a book, commenting on what an author intended. You Christians are ever the thieves and liars, just as you admitted leader, Paul - Saul the Roman agent.

Posted by: Mark the Spark | July 12, 2004 1:34 AM

I simply found the movie moved me in a way that was hard to describe. To me it felt nice, scary, mind blowing yet soothing. For me it felt like God was re-revealing the reality of my life in the context of this world. In my life I see both good + bad. I see the small goodness trying to overcome the crap through the help of a higher source + indeed the source of goodness. That's why I believe that LOTR is something a little bit special. I believe it has the spirit of the gospel breathing through the storyline. For those who have ears to hear, it's a sweet thing!

Posted by: Ben Mckinnon | August 2, 2004 11:07 PM

I do not see the Lord of the Rings as Christian. It, like Harry Potter, and the Forgotten Realms series are secular in my view. I recommend all three book series's, but they are certainly not religious.

Posted by: Kris Smith | January 11, 2005 1:15 PM

How do you feel?

Feel free to share your feelings about God & The Lord of the Rings. Please stick to the theme of the entry. Disagreement is fine. Homophobia, racism, and kindred expressions of hatred will be deleted. This site is one of my hobbies. I genuinely enjoy hearing from people and hate moderating or killing comments. Forthright disagreement is fine as long as it is civil.
My thanks,
Richard

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