Edifying Spectacle

Dear Readers, I just received a letter from Erik Rees, Pastor of Ministry & Small Group Leadership Development at RICK WARREN'S Saddleback Church denying that their teaching (SHAPE) had any connection to CARL JUNG, the occultist. With my response to follow. I invite you all to write to Erik Rees directly! His email address is: ErikR@saddleback.net Dear Erik, So does this mean you stand by Carl Jung, as he is heart and root system of the P in SHAPE which is your Personality Profiling system, based on Jung, Meyers-Briggs, and Keirsey Temperament sorter? If it is biblical wouldn't it be appropriate to compare the teachings of Carl Jung to the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostles? Isn't it biblical to inquire where these ideas came from? Isn't it biblical to be a good Berean and search the Scriptures to see if these ideas can be found there? Jung, by his own testimony which I documented obtain his personality theory (which you use in your SHAPE) from Divination (in which he talked to a spirit guide named Philemon), his belief in evolution, astrology, Taoism, and Gnosticism. It is these very magic arts that were in books that the early Christians burned in the Book of Acts. It is these very magic arts that John in Revelation states that whoever practices them will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. (It should not even be named among the brethren). Divination is called an abomination before God in the Old Testamennt. So how is this biblical? btw, your Celebrate Recovery is based on Bill Wilson's AA 12 Step Program. Bill Wilson considered Carl Jung the co-founder of AA. So this is indisputably the facts of the root system of both Psychological profiling and the 12 Step Program. Therefore, the root system is a thornbush. Doesn't Scripture say that you can't get figs out of a thornbush....no, not even one! It is true that we should love God and live fruitful lives. But this can only occur with obedience to his commandments (if you love me, you must keep my commandments). Secondly, if you want to be biblical and live fruitful lives, the Bible calls this process Sanctification. And how is it done? By the watering of his word. In fact, it is the process sanctification that brings even perfection at the point in time we see Him face to face.. Sanctification doesn't need any help, it is not deficient or defective. So if sanctification accomplishes this without a psychological profile, as it has done for 2,000 years for Christians, including the persecuted and martyred saints, then how does psychological profiling (based on pagan and occultic ideas) help to close the gap? My hope, because you appear to want to be biblical and not go beyond what is written, is to completely submit to the following passage which leaves no room for psychological (help) or profiling to achieve fulfilling and fruitful lives. Note this passage is not just talking about how husbands can sanctify and bring to perfection their wives, but how Christ (the husband) brings his bride (the Church) to perfection....that is the watering of His Word. Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing. Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. [note that if this process of sanctifcation will present us without spot, wrinkle, or any such thing, what is missing then to bring us to perfection...a psychological profile? You don't think these Jung/evolution based ideas don't have a spot wrinkle, and in fact are completely leavened with spots and wrinkles? You don't think a little of this leaven won't leaven the whole lump?] And where is the fear of the Lord in Carl Jung or his ideas that are a major pillar, if not the foundation of the P in SHAPE as well as Celebrate Recovery?] You want "fullness" I agree. Let's see if the Word alone can achieve this, or does it need help from a psychological profile. Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; KJV NIV renders this "in its fullness." Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Col 2:8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Note: Psychology is part of the philosophy of this world. What Greek philosophy (and that is where Sanguine, Choleric, Melancholy, in Purpose Driven Life, page 245) came from did Paul integrate with the Gospel....its ideas or practices? If you still dispute the pagan origin of these personality temperament theory ideas, I invite you to read one of many sources on the subject: http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/temper.htm As to whether something helps us live "fulfilled and fruitful lives" to use your words, and whether this to be biblical, then wouldn't that depend on what the Bible says will achieve this? Here is what the Apostle Peter says about this: 2Pe 1:3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Now Paul and Peter did not have any Psychological profile, so how were they able to have all things needed for life and godliness, and tell us that we (us) have received ALL we need that pertain to life and godliness? He even tells us what those things are..."the knowledge of him." The knowledge of him is found in the Scripture. But this should be no surprise since Paul said virtually the same thing in the process of Sanctification as I point out in the above Scriptures. A final point on your SHAPE 301 Class. By requiring people to take the profile to become a member, or contiguous to becoming a member, and your requirement to sign a pledge, you have added two burdens (requirements) that would be the Pharisee's dream. Once again you want to be biblical? What did Jesus say about added burdens, or Paul about not going beyond what is written? Don't you fear God for drawing them into these things? Then if people don't participate in this you remove them? I don't know if you read Parts I & II to my documentaries. But I pray that you do. I sent both to Susan, but it appears from your email that only Part II was forwarded to you. So to be sure you have it, I will send you Part I in my next email, as it is equally critical to prove that these profiles are, in fact, not biblical. Then as Paul reasoned from Scripture, I appeal to you to reason from Scripture how evolution, necromancy, divination, Taoism, gnosticism, and paganism, is in fact a sweet fragrance to the Lord. Kindest regards in Christ, James Sundqist President Rock Salt Publishing ** Dear Erik, I have emailed you directly regarding Carl Jung and you have not responded. As to the rest of your staff, why don't you let them answer for themselves. Cults don't let people do that. I am busy too! Your website posts these emails to inquire and interact with. So someone does that and you delete the message? If no one can question anything they are promoting and remain completely unopposed, that is censorship. If you don't want them replying, or let alone reading legitimate inquiry, then they should remove their names from the website. Paul spent most of his ministry preaching to those who opposed him. Paul would not have deleted my email, he would have reasoned with me from Scripture which you still have not done! Besides this if I am the one bearing false and promoting false teaching you should be exposing me, but you must give a Scriptural basis and proof. Then you must show me the path to restoration. You say you are biblical, yet have done none of these things. Please explain what you mean by "these types of emails!" I would not even have to be writing these emails or be on the radio all over the nation, and be writing articles if you were not promoting false teachings. So, do you denounce Carl Jung as a false teacher or not? Yes, or no. Sincerely in Christ, James Sundquist ----- Original Message ----- From: ErikR@saddleback.net To: rock.salt@verizon.net Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 1:43 PM Subject: FW: Erik Rees Letter re Rick Warren's SHAPE vs. Scripture Part I & James Sundquist response James, This note is being written to ask you to STOP sending your emails to our staff. They are very busy meeting the needs of our congregation and can not be sidetracked by these types of emails. We have notified out staff to delete all of them. If you desire to discuss this then you can email me directly. I over see SHAPE and have shared with you are position with it. Blessings, Erik Rees 949-609-8301 ----- Original Message ----- From: James Sundquist To: ErikR@saddleback.net Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:02 PM Subject: Re: Followup re Carl Jung Dear Erik, If you say there is not connection to Carl Jung, then you are not telling truth. I am astonished enough that you would promote him at all. But if you are promoting, which you are, then just say so, but don't lie about it! Sincerely in Christ, James Sundquist James, Thanks again for your note. SHAPE is originated by Pastor Rick Warren, our senior pastor…not Carl Jung. There are NO connections between the two and there is absolutely no reason to try to connect them. If you don’t feel the teaching of Rick’s is biblical I would strongly suggest you read the Purpose-Driven Life, which you can buy online. We stand by the Great Commission and Great Commandment and are committed to helping people fulfill them. Blessings, Erik Dear Erik, I wanted to followup my last letter to inquire if you and your church mark Carl Jung as a false teacher, as biblically we are required to expose and warn God's people who are false teachers, even naming names, as the Apostle Paul did. I wanted to give you one more opportunity to do so as I am on various Christian radio stations and networks on this subject and will be doing three straight days as a one hour guest on March 15-17 and would like to report where you stand. Kindest regards in Christ, James Sundquist President Rock Salt Publishing